Karting: Who was in the wrong here?

"cosmicspeed" (cosmicspeed) 01/08/2014 at 17:10 • Filed to: indoor karting, Charlotte, NC, VLK

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This past weekend, my brother and I went Karting at a local indoor facility. I just got a GoPro and decided to take a few videos. We usually post very similar times and occasionally see some action while we are there. We are by no means the fastest drivers, but we try and make it out at least twice a month for some heats.

In the attached video, we have our usual Sunday challenge. A guy with an annual pass who we often see and know is very quick. This time he brought his wife who we both assume can also drive well. This is the context of the video...

Feel free to watch the whole thing but the incident occurs around the 2:30 mark and after. She is Kart 12, my brother is ahead of me in Kart 2. Just wondering who was ultimately in the wrong. I will admit that I was being a bit aggressive trying to get around at certain points, however, I feel I have ample notice of my presence as well as the staff throwing a blue flag at least once. Looking for any feedback on this. I am not trying to be a professional but would like feedback on how I could improve.

Chris Clarke > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 17:20

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Looks like she was blocking you, probably not the best etiquette in a non-competition environment.

DailyTurismo > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 17:22

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No right or wrong here. Just some good karting. In a A-Z race (not a competition for fastest lap time of the session) I firmly maintain that the slow dude (or gal) has the right to block/maintain-line/be-a-jerk and the faster dude (or gal) in the rear has the right to ram/bash/spin the offending blocker. Indoor karting is just mario kart with out the red shells and bananas - bash away! Anyone who says "so in so has the right of way" is just a pompous douchebag or wants to keep his karting equipment alive because he owns a kart track.

ddavidn > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 17:22

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You were being pretty agressive a couple times, but I would have let you pass before then. But I'm very laid back, because it's just karts. Supposed to be fun, right? I don't know if I could say a "right" and "wrong" here.

That's probably not much help...

EL_ULY > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 17:23

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come on 12, move fu!!!! Way before that you made your presents shown on a couple occasions, she just couldn't take a hit. I would of after the first bump and let you pass. Flag dudes were not paying attention

Stop bumping sign?, GTFO staff

DailyTurismo > DailyTurismo 01/08/2014 at 17:24

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Also - you need to cut apexes/walls closer, take later apexes and you are losing 10ths by lifting at the end of the straight away before applying brakes. :)

ttyymmnn > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 17:25

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You had her fair and square at 2:38 after she went wide. She should have let you through. But your move at 2:50 was a little Romain Grosjean-ish.

davedave1111 > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 17:28

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If it's a race for position, she was in the right. It's you responsibility to learn to overtake, even when it's as hard as on most kart tracks. When you're driving karts that accelerate at roughly the same speed you need to take a different line through the corner or you'll never get past.

If it's just a practice, or race against the clock, it's quicker and easier just to back off and give slow people some distance

Montalvo > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 17:33

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Rubbing is racing as they say, I didn't see anything flatout wrong but she was definitely playing very defensively for a non-competitive race. If anything this is just a disagreement in race etiquette. You were obviously way faster and in this instance I feel like she should have let you pass. She turned the wheel on you about 3 times which would piss me off as well. You handle the cart like a pro too, I haven't been to a kart track in a while.

cosmicspeed > davedave1111 01/08/2014 at 17:40

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My speculation is that she may normally race longer, position type races. This was solely a race against the clock with the only standing being an overall "RPM" standing that the VLK records.

I agree with your first statement. VLK hosts league races that have heats that occasionally last for a few hours. I do want to participate in a season at some point.

cosmicspeed > DailyTurismo 01/08/2014 at 17:45

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That long straight is the new section so I could use some practice. Where we continue straight at 1:13 used to turn left to the part at 1:22 and then would backtrack on itself through the end-straightaway esses and then back around the track.

The track change made lap times cut down by over a second, maybe even more. It is a faster circuit but still has a lot of technical sections. Top 10 were running 0:44:XXX I believe.

cosmicspeed > ttyymmnn 01/08/2014 at 17:47

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I agree. 2:50 was not a highlight moment. I assumed she would stay on the inside given I had tapped her at least a few times. But I shouldn't have assumed, and properly set myself up to out brake or attempt another clean pass.

davedave1111 > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 17:49

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With casual karting, people are often not taking it seriously. When I go karting my wife usually comes with, because she finds it fun to drive the kart. No interest in lap times at all, though. She wouldn't deliberately block you, but might not realise she was doing it, even with stuff like in your video.

ghosty - electric space wizard > DailyTurismo 01/08/2014 at 17:52

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As someone who worked at a go-kart track for 3 years, we'd just end your race early if you bash and crash your way around the track. We've ended races before a single lap was finished before. And you're right it's because we want to take care of the equipment. Each kart is between $6000 and $7000 so can you really blame them? It's easily possible to race without purposefully crashing into others.

RacinBob > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 19:10

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I think the poster is totally in the right. This is a lapping session, not a race. That's obvious because of the way they started, with the worker gapping the cars. Now, since there is no order here, of course there is overtaking because there are a mix of slow and fast cars in the line. And in lapping sessions, and during most races when a obviously faster car gets behind you the rule DDBAD (Don't be a Douche) applies to everyone. It means pay attention and don't impede the other guy who will pass you anyway. Especially on a narrow track like this. Car 12 is obviously slower and had ample opportunities to let him by. That's what it should have done.

So someone will probably argue that the passing driver was in the wrong and he should wait for a really clean pass. That sounds nice but ok, what if there was a third guy in this line. He has to cleanly pass the guy who is trying to cleanly pass slow old 12 is holding up the session and screwing up the session for everybody.

Bottom line is, there is little excuse for blocking in a lapping session. 12 was slow as shown by the fact it was immediately left behind by the passing car. The lesson is that person should be spending their lapping time getting quicker, and not wasting it being a douche.

As a guy who has passed a lot of race cars over 25 years, the other advantage is that if you are attentive and let the fast guy by, people notice and play better. Lest damage, better time for all.

BmacIL > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 19:36

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As other's have said, if this was a race for position, she was correct to defend her line. In a time trial, this is just selfish driving. I hosted my buddy's bachelor party starting with a karting grand prix and we were all able to keep our heads during the qualifying session and let faster people by. It's just common racing sense.

Lets Just Drive > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 19:45

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This, on a larger scale, is what gets Marshals biting their nails in white knuckled anticipation of a collision or crash. Why? Because no one was really more wrong then the other person. There are a couple points where she clearly closed the door on you despite you having the faster line and there are a couple points where you're overshooting the apex and carrying too much speed.

This is the sort of thing that, in the lead up to a crash, has everyone watching saying, "Someone needs to back off." And then, when the media get to pestering the team managers you hear things like, "Racing is an intense sport and sometimes we make choices in the spirit of competition and not good sense." Someone will say, "Kart 12 should have let him through," while others protest that you were driving too hard.

This is the kind of thing that, after all is said and done, has everyone going back to the tapes to find out who made the first irreconcilable error. Then it's all about how you were the first to commit a mistake. Sadly, I think it probably was you - carried a bit too much speed and cut her line but even that's debatable.

This is the kind of thing that almost always comes down to a small thing.

DocWalt > cosmicspeed 01/08/2014 at 20:34

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I would have dive bombed her way before she let you by. I'm not there to putt around behind someone slower than me. When faster people come up behind me I try to let them by as soon as possible, I expect the same in return.

What really ticks me off is when you pass someone and they feel the need to dive bomb you then park their ass in your way just to hold you up because they think that it wasn't fair that you passed them.

I really like driving around with just my friends on the track...